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2002 Dash Conversion
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Ads90



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 290
Location: Gloucestershire

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:39 am    Post subject: 2002 Dash Conversion Reply with quote

Hi All,

I have just bought some second-hand bits to convert the centre dash to the later 2002 style (so I can flash my hazards & not my heated rear screen on motorways!). Confused

Has anyone done this yet?
Do I rememeber you saying you had Chris?

If so, any pointers/advice/pictures would be much appreciated... I am worried about getting half-way through and getting stuck, or finding I am missing something.

I have read the REEDX.net site, and it contains loads of good info on the switches, but not a great deal on the fitting of the dash itself... maybe it's fairly obvious when you start?

Also, does anyone know if it's possible to change the colour of the switch illumination? Would be nice if I could make it match the blue dials...?

I have all the parts shown here: http://www.reedx.net/landrover/mods/2002dash/part2/index.htm
Plus the later vent openers and the metal panel which goes behind all this.

Thanks,
Adam.

EDIT: OK, so I've just read the thread Simon started back in Feb - doh!
Although it went off course a little - did you ever do this Simon?
And Chris - you did change the colour of the switches then - did you ever take a photo of it? And I'm fairly good with electrics if I take my time - maybe fiddling with the illumination is something I can have a go at once it's all in and working...? Any help would be great... Ta.
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Simon Whitaker



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 486
Location: Giggleswick, North Yorkshire

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
Re the 2002 dash - no never did it. Currently the 50th has been off the road for a few weeks while I sort out twin optimas - remount the lpg tank as I had to partially remove it to the fit the batts - so while I was at it I am creating a new aux fuse & relay box in prep for the dash - I would really like to know how it goes and what parts fit / don't with you. Only thing I have not sourced are the plugs to the rear of the 2002 switches - Chris how did you get hold off these ? Only thought I have other than the main dealer route is to go to a scrappers as the freelander switches for the windows and seats are the same I think - however will still be stuck with the hazards, rear wash & wipe, front and rear fogs and front and rear screen - any clues much appreciated. Confused How about a meet with Chris if he's willing for a chat - unfortunately I can't make it this weekend - kids in swiming gala !

Cheers
Simon
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Ads90



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 290
Location: Gloucestershire

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks like lots of relays are required, so good idea for the box, Simon...

I have taken some of the switches apart to see the bulbs - looks like a trip to maplins might sort these out..?

Looking at the rear fog 'push/push' switch though, it might work off the td5 computer thingie, as it doesn't appear to 'switch'. I suspect it's cancelled by turning off the ignition on these models.
However the rear screen is a switch in/out type though - I wondered if another one of these was bought, you may be able to swap the switch face plate over to make a fog hybrid?

I am missing the rear wiper switch so I don't know what sort that is...

The rest should be ok - the REEDX site shows some of the pin allocations, and also suggests where you can get the multi-plugs for the rear.

Hope Chris can shed more light on the bulbs ( Rolling Eyes ), switches & relays required...
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Simon Whitaker



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 486
Location: Giggleswick, North Yorkshire

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy - Have you looked at Vehicle Wiring Products - everything you need is here - only problem is they don't have a web shop - but very helpful on the phone
They also do a paper catalogue. I'm using the modular housing unit system in mine - cat p19 - and fitting under the passenger seat - unit takes both relays and fuses in many combinations !! See:
www.vehicle-wiring-products.co.uk/
also see :
www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/
these guys have a wesite you can order from - it works great delivery as well. Hope this helps !
Have you checked out the guy on ebay who sells LED dash kits for Defenders - he may be able to help with the switch issue.

Cheers
Simon #149
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defender50th
Site Admin


Joined: 14 Nov 2004
Posts: 1492
Location: Hampshire

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simon Whitaker wrote:

Have you checked out the guy on ebay who sells LED dash kits for Defenders - he may be able to help with the switch issue.


You can get most LED's from http://www.ultraleds.co.uk/

As for fitting the dash i can help Confused

Best regards

James
GB 002
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Simon Whitaker



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 486
Location: Giggleswick, North Yorkshire

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smile go on tell us more then James Exclamation

Simon
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defender50th
Site Admin


Joined: 14 Nov 2004
Posts: 1492
Location: Hampshire

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OOpppp's, that ment to say i can't help.

Sorry

James
GB 002
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Ads90



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 290
Location: Gloucestershire

PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had a look at those sites - I think I have more questions than before now!

I could do with advice on:

Relays - are 4 blade all you need for the rear screen & wash-wipe? Would there not already be some in the circuit? If you do need them - what amp rating?

What rating cable would you need between the switches & relays?

Most of the little LEDs for sale seem to be 3.5V - can you get the tiny ones in 12V or do you need to put resistors in the lighting circuit? Come to think of it - are the little bulbs already in the switches LEDs?

There seem to be lots of different types of connector - blade, bullet, with/without heatshrink - which is best for joining wire to wire? Or should you use multi-connectors (which would be a neat way of extending the wires from the existing switches to the centre of the dash)?
Any idea of the ampage for these?

Chris - where are you? Think you're needed! Laughing
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Cyscrofer



Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 217
Location: Doncaster South Yorkshire

PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok
here we go 2002 dash
get all the bits you need switches panels etc.
you know the ones
right as to connectors don't bother mor greef then there worth.
i soldered all the connections to the back of the switches directly.
caution if you cant sold very well dont even attept it, you'll melt the switch before you start.
a 25 watt temp controlled iron is the best for this.
if you cut away half of the switch terminal back you can get bewtter acces to the joints.
heat srink is also a must to isolated when done.
all the wires i have used on the soldering process are small 16*.2 cable.
will cary about 1 amp max.
good reason for this is that space in my car is limited very limited more than yours since i've pt that much in it now.
as to relays good help you all.
you'll need four 16 amp min rated for leccy windows, and another half a dozen for the rest of the stwiches without getting in to complexed wiring like me when it comes to lights and related controll such as the hazzard led.
if you stick with the standard switches then you wont have too much problem.
work out the combination of the switch take the switch apart this way you will be able to work out the combination of the contact postitions befopre atemping the wiring mods requied to make the process work.
don't start on an easy switch!!!! to many people i have talked to said iv'e done the rear wash wip and rear pump and now im stuck.
crist there only a single set off contact and can be done in minutes.
try the hazzard switch first!
it's the hardest one so if you can do that then your in with a chance with the others.
you'll need plenty of coloured cable, if you can buy a multi core calbe from say maplins or RS say 20 cored 16*.2 guage that way you will have plenty of colours to go at, you'll need them tyo make head and tails of it all whe your closer to finishing it.
keep it neat and very tight there aint no room for non loomed cable int the back of the dash.
o'h and if you can afford it buy the td5 front vent openers not the standard ones, you'll need to change them to get the air flapss to work correctly after you have fitted the dash.
about 15 quid a side if i remember correctly.
you'll need to order four studs in black for the bottom of the dash and the stich panel, dont get the glove box item unless you have no intention of fiting a radio.
also if your fitting a ecent radion bend the alloy plate behind the dash in the middle, not to far in to obstruct the wipeer mech. but enough to give you rom to fit the radio in the fist place.
even mine only just goes in on a slight angle..
hope this helps you one your way.
093
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Ads90



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 290
Location: Gloucestershire

PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok - thanks Chris.
Feeling a little daunted now - but will give it a go!

Can you tell me what LEDs you used for the switches?
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Cyscrofer



Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 217
Location: Doncaster South Yorkshire

PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

try tos bright water clear.
very expensive about 3 - 4 quid each...
if your to a budget try ultra brights...
starting value for resisitors are about 680 ohms for ref.
make sure if your going down the LED route to alter yet again the way you wire the switches....the way landrover do there lighting is different to the way your going to Led light them...in laymans terms some switches are ok to just fit the Leds but most of the switches have predetermined wiring inside the units for switching the items on and off...all the 50th are wired so that the item is permanently live with the switch gounding out to allow current to flow enewrgising the item you've switched.
ok you say trouble is then how do you switch the led, argh you say it's easy just drive the Led the other way round not a problem well it wouldn't be if the switch would allow it and you can easily rewire the supplies to the Leds only for the switches....
you can do it but it's a bastard! it's my field and it wasn't easy sorry.
when you sort out the hazzard try led lighting on that one it's a real sod...
9 pins two supplies four indicators and three control and three display wires...nice....not. then try to wire an Led in the path....hehehehehehe...
now go one stage further by getting the Led to illuminate when you put the side lights on.....hehehehehe pulling your hair out yet....then just to make life even harder try to get the Led to flash yes both when the illuminations on and off....heheeehhehehe ......four relays to add!!!! lack of space no hair left and cramp form leaning into the cab....
so if you can crack that you standa chance of doing the rest.
thank god i've done it.... Cool

anything else before you try?

if you get really down you can always try alcohol Very Happy
ttfn 093
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Ads90



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 290
Location: Gloucestershire

PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right - the message is beginning to sink in...

It's a bit tricky then, yeah?

Gulp - I think I'll leave the lighting as-is.
Is it white, or green?
If it's white, then I guess that's not too bad with the blue.
If it's green I may change the clocks back to green...

Think I might invest in a multimeter too, as the switch internals are a bit confusing...

Don't suppose you're tempted to make a '2002 dash electrics kit' then Chris? I'm sure you could shift a few - there does seem to be lots of people out there who start it but never finish it (like the guy I bought my bits from) and I think I'm beginning to see why...

You reading this Simon? Laughing
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Simon Whitaker



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 486
Location: Giggleswick, North Yorkshire

PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup - knew it was not a simple mod !

I've spent the last few weeks just doing the wiring drawings - still not completed them as I keep improving them - also keep thinking of future additions - roof lights. winch, invertor etc ........ the list goes on and on !

Not too keen on soldering the leads direct to the switches - in my experience with the Freelander the electric window switches burn out - solder contacts make them tricky to replace ! Therefore tring to locate the actual plugs - am going to email Colin at ReedX.net to see if has the RS parts number as the OME number Tyco AMP does match any listed in the RS catalogue - found the pins RS # 362-9367. RS on line is good - www.rsww.com - you can register as an individual and pay by credit card and delivery is usually next day and free - loads in the catalogue - six volumns now Surprised

Chris - great article in LRE, congrats on more throphies Exclamation and thanks for your input on this - for me the leds are getting to much into unkown areas Exclamation Can you lay - professional capacity - any light on the switch plugs -

Tyco AMP Multilock:
347477-1 black female
347477-2 white female
347477-3 blue female
347477-4 green female

These apparently fit all the switches apart from the hazard switch which is a 10 way female and the electric windows. As yet haven't tried Farnells wil pop into when next in Leeds and look through their catalogue.

I have yet to fit the electric windows but was going to fit the Falcon 4x4 kit along with the CDL + interfaces and selfclosing unit linked to the OEM alarm. Pete tells me the switch will be fine direct firing as the laod is only 3 amps - any views on this ? - the Land Rover OEM switch must be fine with this small load - if so less relays - yipee Exclamation

Simon
#149[/u]
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Cyscrofer



Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 217
Location: Doncaster South Yorkshire

PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok....will try my best for you all.
right as to connectors there are some to be found in rover 400 and 25 the hazzard switch is the same as the 25 i think...not too sure you will have to play in a yards or go to the main dealer to see whats the same.
the small crimp on type fittings you can get from RS do work but also work loose...i tried those first off...in my mind it's not worth it and for the five minutes it takes t desolder and resolder well thats ok for me but for others i see your point.
if you do deside to use the crimps make sure your have heat srink on the ends when they work loose (and i tried alsorts to make them better) they can short out on numerous things in the back...just a thought.

as to the Kit?...good idea but i've got so much on and so little time .
yes it would be easy for me and i think it's getting time that i started to do something like this as a side line....we'll see.
god if i only had more time i could make a new landrover...hmmm
one that really des work properly and without corrosion.

heaven.
Cool

anyway the lights in the switches are green sadly for you so if you've blued your clocks it's gonna look a twat.

im not sure what to say really with your setup...trouble is even if you could just change the lights it wouldn't be so bad but it's the rest of the configuration that is the problem...one of my firend down the road is also fitting the dash upgrade and he's decided to use a different switch all together from lucas services...might look ok when finished but at the mo it's a big big mess.

the leccy window kit from falcon...very good kit bit of a sod to fit nicely but thats life....3amps you say to close the windows...hmmm
more like 15amps...becarefull current heat light and sound can all come at a price as they say...use relays i know some firms say yes no worries there built for the job....bollocks is the word...plastic switches are not ment to take currents like that not at 12 vdc at least.
it's a simple mod to use the realys you'll need four minimum and thats without the auto closer bit.
taking each window mark a standard relay normally open and normally closed you can use the 5 leg type from most motorist shops but i prefer to use industrial type from maplins, RS or farnells....there not cheap but well worth it if your gonna do a good job.
mine cost around 25 eachmaybe a little more so you can see the difference already to most peoples wiring attemps...
use open and closed relays all the time...good reasons for this if your wiring goes wrong slightly when your messing with polarity's you can always go to the opposite switching side ie open to closed and visa versa.
get good relays....cheap are shite...they never last and have a tendancy to burn up afeter a short time...when you fit the 2002 leave in the under tray from the old dash...this provides a nice shelf for resting all the wiring and relays you'll use....
the tip with the windows is to use one relay for open ad one for closed.
if you get relays with at least two sets of contacts switch both wires to the motors....this garantees you no shorts or problems thoughout.

just use the standard landrover switches to drive each switch in turn.
to get the motors to reverse just set one relay up so red to red and black to black...call the up....and then the other relay wire to....red to black and black to red....this way the motor will revers when you activate the different relay....simple init!

it's well worth registering with RS for bits' although you can get just the same for less from more local suppliers...trouble is they dont always carry stock.

remember if you are buggering about with the switches you can easily take them apart to not only check clean and grease the contacts but make life a damn sight easier to solder and loom up. once ready and dash is in place just clip the contact plate back in.

tip with the dash....ignore the three screws you need on the top of the main facia plate...there a waiste of time....drill and fit two screws in the very top corner....this way you can tighten them up and remove them so much more easily...i admit they dont look as neat but use black headed screws and your laughing....also a long bar of half inch thick plastic is a good idea for the bottom say one inch wide and about 8 inches long.
when you fix the bottom of the facia just hold the plasic plate in place and using stainless self tappers screw away one will hold the other and not only makes a secure job but a very solid one too.

have fun
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Sadly not a 50th member any longer more like a hanger-on if you know what i mean.
Maybe one day i will return.
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Ads90



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 290
Location: Gloucestershire

PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the advice & info Chris.

I must admit now I know a lot more I am not sure this is something I should attempt by myself - I am happy with a soldering iron & I have survived a trip to Maplins on more than one occasion - but these were for small home electronics projects - not automotive where lots of amps (& relays) are involved!
I was also naively thinking it might be a weekend job (it's my only car), but I don't think it is going to be - not for me anyway!
'Specially dissapointed that the lights are green - I could have lived with white, but I like my blue dials Sad

I don't know - if it's something I could prepare in the house - all ready for a weekend fitting - to avoid an out of action car, then maybe I can do it. That way I am less likely to set fire to the car also!

I have also bought the Falcon window & CDL kit - maybe I will just fit the CDL and leave the windows for now - I didn't want to cut the console to put the switches in... that was one of the reasons for the 2002.

I'll think about it and see how Simon gets on first - and get on with my other jobs!
Simon - when you do it can you take loads of photos, and keep a list of parts, if it's not too much hassle?

And if you do decide to put a switch & relay kit together Chris - I'll be your first customer! Laughing
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