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Hello from a new member and a little help needed.
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Devon-rover



Joined: 30 Oct 2012
Posts: 28
Location: Sothwest Devon

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:44 pm    Post subject: Hello from a new member and a little help needed. Reply with quote

Hi

My name is Rowan and i have come here as i'm stuggaling with my current project.
I'm not a stranger to land rovers, the family has a few and i have 5 to my name 2 on the road and 4 in storage.
My current steed is a 1994 (200 style) discovery with a 4.2 V8 in it and which is slowly dissolving so i am building a ninety

In 2010 i was given a '95 Discovery V8i auto and a year and a bit ago i went and brought a 1985 V8 ninety project vehicle. It started as a hard top and the previous owner had tried to make it look like a CSW.

So earlier this year 6 or so months with my disco long term future looking like being turned into parts. I started the rebuild.
Now i will admit i do like the look of the 50th anniversary and also the NAS 90's so with a Disco V8 Auto and a ninety Sat by the shed there was only going to be one outcome.
A V8 Automatic ninety.

So far progress has been good. I have the engine and box in and the disco's axles are all underneath, new superpro bushes all the way throughout, and all new brake pipes.

As of my liking of the 50th then there was only one option and i have the ashcroft centre tunnel and the bracetry sat in a box awaiting fitment. To be honest the 50th and NAS way of fitting the auto shifter within the moulded console is the only way to make it look satisfactory.

But now i have a problem and come looking to the knowledgeable ones on here to help.

I had made at the local radiator place a HD radiator to the dimensions of a TD rad but with the outlets to suit the pipework of the engine (3.9 serpentine) Essentially the biggest that will fit. I did ask brookwells for a price for a 50th rad but the bank said no!

Now the Radiator cowl is where i have a problem.

The engine As far as i know is dimensionally the same as the GEMS 4.0 litre you all have fitted. This would indicate that as i want to do the job properly a 50th cowl (ERR7307) would fit.
Duely ordered and wallet lightend i was eager to see that what i had would complete the engine bay and look correct.
I have seen a lot of engine swaps done by many over the web and there is a canyon between the rad and the fan which achieves nothing, and looks out of place.

The big day and i have a package and it is too wide. and in a moment of De-Ja-vu. It looks the same as a Disco V8 one. and yes side by side they are identical.
Sent it back and it returned saying that it is correct. Rolling Eyes
I called another retailer and asked them to check their advertised cowl. again the packaged ERR7303 has an ESR2847 in it. (Land rover do the nice thing by casting a Part number into their items).

Now is it true and i have a wrong rad?
There is no room each side of my rad and the wings and a disco rad will never fit, and so this would put it that a 50th rad which I admit I haven't seen for real has really small end caps and i couldn't see it fitting with the cooling and oil pipes as well.

I think that Land rover have on a grand scale mucked up and put the wrong cowl in the wrong packaging.
So Is there any one who can either measure their cowl and take some detail piccies of the rad in the engine bay? Or if someone has a cowl spare to check that it does fit and that L-R have cast the right number into it. I don't have a 50th handy to take to bits and to measure up and check part numbers.
My Rad is the same size as a TD rad and is the biggest that will fit the engine bay. I cannot think that a 50th rad is bigger!?

All help would be very very much appreciated. I'm coming close to taking the viscose off and making do with a kenlowe fan which is not as good as making it look 'factory'

Proving undoutedly that they have made an error with some true facts will help greatly. The local main dealer sent the cowl back to me the first time round and decided to print "Special order item only, no returns" on the invoice. Given i'm fairly sure that the cowl is wrong, I have the disco cowl still and they are identical I'm a little miffed.

Many thanks

Rowan
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GB223



Joined: 28 Oct 2010
Posts: 111
Location: West Sussex

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought a brand new one last November from LR dealer, never fitted it as it arrived after I'd put the engine back in and the fan was already fitted. Invoice says ERR7307 but it has ESR2847 stamped on it, and It looked identical to the old one.
The radiator core is identical dimensions to a RR Classic, but tanks are different, pipe positions differ, and water hoses are deffinitely not the same as RRC. I believe there were also different water pumps on some V8 engines.
Also the standard core is only about 2/3 the thickness of the frame / tanks. Had mine recorred by Guildford radiators with an "Overfinch" core which is the full thickness.
Suggest you look at a 3.9 RRC for guidance, your 3.9 serpentine motor with RRC rad and hoses should work. Disco 1 V8 auto has the same rad as RRC 3.9 Auto, but Disco 2 is completely different.
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Devon-rover



Joined: 30 Oct 2012
Posts: 28
Location: Sothwest Devon

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's just the issue i have.

The RRC and Disco radiator's i have are including the end tanks are 33 1/4 inches wide, My nineties rad is 29 1/4 inches wide all in.
The engine bay width at the point where the radiator fits in a ninety is 30 3/4 inches wide.
The core widths on the Disco rad is 28 1/4 inches the ninety 25 1/4 so you see i have a cowl which is 3 inches too wide to fit the radiator.
Does this suggest that on a 50th and a NAS 90 the rad core is 28 1/4 inches wide and between the two end caps you have 1 1/4 inches each side to fit the oil cooler pipes and the radiator inlet / outlet in? Confused

Yours even more confused.
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Devon-rover



Joined: 30 Oct 2012
Posts: 28
Location: Sothwest Devon

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone? I'm really at a sticky wicket untill i can make sense of this.


Here is a NAS engine bay which should bear relevence to your 50th engine bay. i hope. I know LHD and RHD do have the odd difference but the cooling system is similar i am told.

you can see the width of the rad and when mine is in place there is the same looking width and not much to spare between the tanks and the wings.

yours hopefully
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101FC



Joined: 06 Sep 2009
Posts: 227
Location: South Gippsland (VICTORIA)

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, not sure how I can help as you seem to know what you are looking for! What I can confirm is that the largest dimensions are very approximatly 29" x 19.5". There is this one on ebay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Land-Rover-Cowl-Cooling-Fan-Defender-ERR7307-/271092475146?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D11%26meid%3D3349193443207732347%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D1005%26rk%3D2%26sd%3D280976704167%26 It appears to be missing the top cover part however it may be worth asking the vendor to run a tape measure over it for you? Here are a couple of shots of my working class engine bay Shocked


2012-11-10_11-18-26_319 by James.Elphick, on Flickr


2012-11-10_11-18-37_614 by James.Elphick, on Flickr
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73 FL 05 (101)
56 HG 41 (LW)
50th Anniversary #264
WAS 483 (SUMB)
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Devon-rover



Joined: 30 Oct 2012
Posts: 28
Location: Sothwest Devon

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi thanks for the pictures. I don't suppose i could trouble you for a Measurement for the width of the cowl. (Hard i know as it it is in place but should be the Width of the core within 1/2 inch. for the crimps on the end tanks.

Hobsons are the 'other' chaps who i have spoken too and they say the cowl they have does have the ESR2847 stamped on it. mmm strange.. I might ask for measurements off them. The top cover is a shared piece which Ironically fits the ERR7307 and the ESR2847.


even if i doubt myself i'm still sure that i want the proper ERR7307 but it is just finding one.
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Devon-rover



Joined: 30 Oct 2012
Posts: 28
Location: Sothwest Devon

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok here is two other bit's i'm not sure about.


Here is a picture shamelessly stolen off hobsons site, Is this what you lot have? Notice the RH side and the looks like a scalloped bits for the hose's, This correct as to what yours look like?





Here is what i have and notice the difference!

I welcome your thoughts.
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Romadog2004



Joined: 06 Aug 2008
Posts: 612
Location: Warwickshire

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hobson's one looks correct. It has the two metal plates which go over the radiator lower mounts. They are weakly fixed to cowl with pop rivets. Always take care when fitting/removing.
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101FC



Joined: 06 Sep 2009
Posts: 227
Location: South Gippsland (VICTORIA)

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Devon-rover wrote:
Hi thanks for the pictures. I don't suppose i could trouble you for a Measurement for the width of the cowl. (Hard i know as it it is in place but should be the Width of the core within 1/2 inch. for the crimps on the end tanks.



101FC wrote:
I can confirm is that the largest dimensions are very approximately 29" x 19.5".

_________________
73 FL 05 (101)
56 HG 41 (LW)
50th Anniversary #264
WAS 483 (SUMB)
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Devon-rover



Joined: 30 Oct 2012
Posts: 28
Location: Sothwest Devon

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your help i have ordered a cowl from hobsons and all going well it should be the right one. i will let you know how it goes.
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Devon-rover



Joined: 30 Oct 2012
Posts: 28
Location: Sothwest Devon

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the cowl from hobsons. It is the genuine item and it all looks good.

So for future reference if you need a cowl buy the ESR 2847 and chop the relative bits out of it to fit round the pipework and two metal brackets on the bottom to go on the bottom pins.
That is what it is.

I have now taken the wrong back to where i got it and he is less than happy and shall now be giving LR a rather large telling off.
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Devon-rover



Joined: 30 Oct 2012
Posts: 28
Location: Sothwest Devon

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote





Look familiar?

Ohh yes this is an ESR2847 BUT with the corners amended. It is the same mold just chopped about and then called an ERR7307. Well that was an education.

again thank you all and i'll loiter to ask more questions and hopefully answer some of yours in future.
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Devon-rover



Joined: 30 Oct 2012
Posts: 28
Location: Sothwest Devon

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK next question.

How is the air filter mounted? does any one have the bracketry to hand or know the part number? I have the circular air filter housing i would like to know how it is mounted to the back of the engine? or is it to the bulkhead?

again many thanks!
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Romadog2004



Joined: 06 Aug 2008
Posts: 612
Location: Warwickshire

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bracket is mounted to the back of the engine block and the filter box fitted to it via rubber mounts (cotton reel type). The heater pipes run under this and are held up to it with clips.


I02.050 AIR CLEANER (4.0L V8 L/R EFI PETROL, 50 LE)
BRACKET ASSEMBLY-MOUNTING AIR CLEANER, 4.0L V8 L/R EFI PETROL, AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION, '90"', 50 LE
Part number: PHU102790

This is another bracket which needs copying as I'm not sure if it is still available and if it is, how long for.
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Devon-rover



Joined: 30 Oct 2012
Posts: 28
Location: Sothwest Devon

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi thanks for that.

And yes it appears to be out of stock everywhere. I suppose i'm going have to make something up to fit the hole and to mount the air filter to.

I imagine something off the bolts on the back of the cylinder head and maybe a bell housing bolt or two.
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